[00:00:00]
Diana Pastora Carson: This episode is proudly sponsored by ABILITY Magazine, the leading magazine for health, disability, and human potential that strives to shatter myths and stereotypes that surround disabilities.
Diana Pastora Carson: Welcome to the Beyond Awareness, disability Awareness That Matters podcast. I'm your host, Diana Pastora Carson. Here you'll find a safe space to learn and grow with leaders in education, disability studies, disability advocacy, and diversity, equity, and inclusion conversations. Specifically, we look at how disability fits into diversity, equity, inclusion, access, and belonging, and how to frame disability awareness in the context of educating [00:01:00] K 12 communities.
Diana Pastora Carson: This show serves educators, parents, and community members who strive to learn and or teach about disability in a research based and respectful way, moving beyond simple awareness. And diving into inclusive and socially responsive conversations. Now let's go beyond awareness. Hello everyone. And welcome to beyond awareness, disability awareness that matters today. I am excited to have our guest, Chet Cooper, who among many other achievements. Chet, you created ABILITY Magazine in 1990, which is the same year as the Americans with Disabilities Act that it was enacted. And that was nearly 35 years ago.
Diana Pastora Carson: So it's been a while. It's a magazine that has featured interviews with and the writings of famous people, [00:02:00] actors, politicians, high profile business people, international leaders, and so on. This is actually how we first met through ABILITY Magazine, in which you have supported my work and mentored me through our joint projects, but most importantly, you have introduced me to Pickleball.
Diana Pastora Carson: But that's not all you've accomplished in your career. You have also been dedicated to the disability community through programs that you've created, such as ABILITY Jobs, ABILITY Corps, ABILITY House, and ABILITY Entertainment, also known as ABILITY E. So that is a very brief introduction, but now I want you to please tell us a little bit about your background and about each of those programs and any [00:03:00] that I might have forgotten.
Diana Pastora Carson: So welcome, Chet Cooper.
Chet Cooper: What a great introduction. I just wanted to hear more. It feels good to hear about all that you've done. Tell me more about my eyes, right? Well, where do I start with that, other than thank you. it was great meeting you. Do you remember the first time we met?
Chet Cooper: Time we met, where we met. I don't remember that. What was the name? It's an organization that was dealing with military children, abroad. Oh, kids included together. Yes. Yes. Kids Included Together. That's right. I was down in San Diego and they invited me to come down and, you were sitting close to me.
Chet Cooper: I remember you just kept, moving and kicking me in the leg and I thought, wow, this woman, come on, quit fidgeting. I'm glad to know I made a good impression. My leg still hurts. [00:04:00] but the other thing, remember the other connection we had about the website? Oh yes, yes. Yes. You want to talk about that?
Chet Cooper: Okay. So as the web developed and we, we got onto the web pretty early adapters in the things we were doing, like you had mentioned, ABILITY Magazine or ABILITY Jobs, ABILITY Jobs being the first job board for people with disabilities And employers looking to hire. And that ranges everything from businesses, non profits, schools, universities
Chet Cooper: can access all the talent, and resumes that are in the system. But, when the, the web was being developed, we went out to a register. There's a name for the places that you buy domains. So we bought the Domain ABILITY Awareness and we bought both com and org. The person that had that company closed shop.
Chet Cooper: We didn't know [00:05:00] it. And because they closed, when the renewal came up, it wasn't renewed and somehow I found that out, I grabbed, what I thought was going to be both. And one of them was taken by some lady in San Diego. do you remember who that lady was? That was me. That would be me
Chet Cooper: who knew, who knew nothing about what I was doing. And I remember you wanted it back. And I said, what did I say? You said, something, a four letter word about out of here? No, I didn't. I said, no, it's a two letter word. No, you can't have it. I didn't know you. I didn't know what you were up to. So that was the other connection we had, which was so interesting that that happened. Yeah. That we had kind of indirectly met twice. You've since forgiven me. I think maybe you're just holding on because you still want the [00:06:00] website, domain. I still want that darn website. Well, what's great is that you moved on.
Chet Cooper: You actually increased what your, view or expanded your view from not just awareness, but beyond that, which is, was interesting to see your transition in disability
Chet Cooper: Just a quick post interview insertion here as Chet was talking about this transition in disability that I experienced. I just wanted to clarify to our listeners that, um, The reason that I transitioned was because of the work that you hear me doing on each podcast episode is the intention is to de stigmatize disability and the term disability and recognizing that in order to make a difference that really matters for people with disabilities, we needed to go beyond disability awareness.
Chet Cooper: We needed to [00:07:00] focus on access awareness. We needed to focus on ableism awareness and all the things, right? All the things that we talk about with our guests here. So that said, let's get back to the interview.
Chet Cooper: I want you to stay focused on your introduction and tell us about ABILITYJobs, ABILITYCorps, ABILITYHouse, and ABILITYE, and your background.
Chet Cooper: Okay. So just what's top of mind right now is. President Carter passed away and we just did a social media post on our Facebook, ABILITY Magazine's Facebook, and just about the man's life and how incredible he was with his, incredible giving of others. And so we had a partnership with Habitat for Humanity.
Chet Cooper: I met with Millard Fuller, who started Habitat. We created a program called the ABILITY House, which was, um, homes where we built across the country for families of low income with disabilities. but we accessed volunteers with [00:08:00] disabilities to build the homes. So change the paradigm of what a disability really means, giving people the opportunity also to volunteer and give back, which is typically people with disabilities are given it, they're not getting the benefits of giving back and volunteering just like Jimmy Carter did.
Chet Cooper: and that's actually one of the things I was thinking about when you mentioned about us being disabled. Doing a talk today, we're talking today, is the, the way teachers approach students with disabilities. often times they're approached without any, Malice of forethought, but just have a bit of, I don't know if we'll call it ableism, or just the idea of maybe giving a little bit more support in ways that a teacher might think is needed.
Chet Cooper: But I always have talked to organizations and people, whether it's post traumatic stress disorder in the military, etc, is if you could position that individual that you know could, benefit with some self esteem is give them a [00:09:00] task to volunteer something, to help others. So if you have, if the teacher is looking at a student, instead of supporting that student, Turn that student around and say, can you support this other person, whether that other person, other student has a disability or not, and share with them a way that they could help that other student, their self esteem will go through the roof if you could figure out how to pull that off.
Chet Cooper: So, I don't know if that was the answer to anything. Yeah. Everybody wants to be able to contribute. Right. So, so I know that you, you know, you talk about ABILITY house and people volunteering and of course. That's always a wonderful thing to do. But I also know that you have been, an advocate for people having paid work, which has not always been accessible to people with disabilities.
Chet Cooper: So that came through ABILITYJobs. Do you want to share a little bit more about ABILITYJobs? I will. Once, one added value thing. So I was in ABILITYHouse in Birmingham, Alabama, [00:10:00] and that particular was really strong and they had events at night for the volunteers. Young man sat next to me during dinner. He said, I just wanted to say thank you.
Chet Cooper: And it was a blitz bill. Two weeks, we built the house in two weeks. Wow. And he sat next to me and said, I just want to share my, that I have schizophrenia. And that, My psychiatrists have taught me that I take something positive in, in my day and carry it to the next day so I don't think of suicide from experiencing these two weeks.
Chet Cooper: I've been here every night, every day working with other volunteers with disabilities. I have at least two years of memories to work off of. So that, that's kind of that concept of volunteering and how deep it can be without you realizing it. Okay. ABILITY jobs. So one of the things when I started getting into the disability arena,
Chet Cooper: I was feeling like volunteerism was one big part of that, giving back, and that's part of the ABILITY house project. there was a place that companies, organizations [00:11:00] can find talent. I knew it was out there and we used to hear. Constantly, where do you find the talent and individuals with disabilities would say I'm not getting hired because of my XYZ disability So we just created the first place to do that online Was that your question?
Chet Cooper: Yeah, I just wanted you to give us a little summary of each of the Programs that you've created. and so from there, the other thing on the employment side, there's maybe two more is we created, the first, accessible online career fair. Online gives you expansion and you could actually have people that can get into the career fair online And find jobs that can work remotely And that is the first and only at this moment Accessible online career fair.
Chet Cooper: So it's built from scratch to accommodate Not only the front facing You Entity. So it's video to video, but if you, it's screen reader capable. and if you were deaf, you [00:12:00] just click a button in a live sign language interpreter appears immediately. So, and then on the backend, the admin side, that's also built with accessibility.
Chet Cooper: So if you hire somebody. whether it's, let's say a school and they're running the career fair that they use our platform, they could have people with disabilities running the event and not worry if they're blind or deaf because they could use the access, the tools that are already built into the, baked into the system.
Chet Cooper: what are the, oh, ABILITYE. So we, just really quick Chet I mean, that is so important. I don't think many of us realize how exclusive the job market is when a person who uses, who's blind or deaf doesn't have access to the technology that the jobs and interviews are being conducted with, and sometimes people will have that, you know, that will be a barrier [00:13:00] because companies or entities don't want to put forth the money to hire the interpreter or the time to make sure everything is screen reader accessible and all the other ways that, with newer technology, that things are accessible.
Chet Cooper: And you've really. You've, you've been committed to accessibility, complete accessibility in all your platforms. Yeah, that was well put. I think a lot of, even HR people that are pros and, and should know, they, they seem to not think, and people are, entities are being sued constantly, that you can just use a chat function, a text function.
Chet Cooper: When you're being interviewed for a job, which is stressful, and you've maybe taken Spanish in school, and that's your second language, then you're going to a job interview and the interviewer says, okay, we're gonna do this interview in Spanish, and you only took one class of Spanish. That's not fair.
Chet Cooper: And the [00:14:00] law says it's not fair and you have to accommodate for the first language. People that are deaf, sign language is their first language. And so. Many employers have gotten sued and lost because they did not provide a reasonable accommodation of a sign language interpreter. So we wanted to get rid of that problem, at least on our career fair, that, that they weren't gonna have to worry about that.
Chet Cooper: That was also, baked into the system that it was there and the employers don't have to worry about finding an interpreter because we have them, at the ready. So how about ABILITYCorps? Well, ABILITYCorps is the non profit that is, under the non profit.
Chet Cooper: It's ABILITYHouse, it's ABILITYJobFair, and ABILITYE, ABILITYEntertainment. And ABILITYEntertainment was built because, We knew it could be built. It was an entertainment database of talent with disabilities. But Netflix came to us asking for some help, to find a particular, young [00:15:00] woman that authentically had a disability.
Chet Cooper: So, kudos to Netflix for, it was a show they were producing. And they could only through the normal channels and there are some, There was an entity, it's actually gone out of business now, that was doing a pretty good job of finding talent and being a agent for them. and so they could only find approximately 10, people that would fit that parameter.
Chet Cooper: And they came to us really struggling because they didn't want to not do this. so we worked with them and sent them over 500. They didn't want to not do what? Not hire somebody? Not hire authentic talent. Okay. Authentic, disabled talent. Yes, okay And, so we, we put the word out. We, we got them over 500 auditions, called.
Chet Cooper: So they were blown away. We realized, okay, we knew we could do this and we made it permanent after that and built ABILITYE. Why is that so important for those who might not know? [00:16:00] If most of the media, whether it's movie TV, that entertainment side really does affect our attitudes toward things. And if we could have more authentic representation and that means both actors and writers and the, and how you portray people, disabilities of all types of disabilities on the screen, big or small screen.
Chet Cooper: It changes society's attitude. So it's actually a really important, subtle, but meaningful, thought process that we said, okay, we've got to do this and we're self funding it right now. We talked to all the studios. COVID hits, everybody freezes, and, we haven't quite gotten back to everybody and said, okay, things have changed.
Chet Cooper: Strikes are over. but, yeah, so everything's free at the moment. casting can come in for free. Of course, talent's always free, both on, anything we do, it's free to the talent. The entities that have the monies are the ones who might have to[00:17:00]
Chet Cooper: pay for posting a job or, but right now ABILITYE is 100 percent free. Okay, so all of those ABILITY Jobs, ABILITY House, and ABILITY E fall under the non profit of ABILITY Corps. Yes. Okay, wow. Great work. Okay. Now, Chet, I always ask my guests, and I'm going to ask you a question in a moment, but not yet.
Chet Cooper: And the question will be, just to give you the heads up, it's going to be, what is your why? I happen to know that you are committed, enthusiastic, and tireless in your work. You rarely take a break except for pickleball and riding your Harley, and you are hard to pin down with so many irons in the fire at all times.
Chet Cooper: So with that said, aside from the obvious and in all seriousness, what has fueled your fire?
Chet Cooper: What [00:18:00] has driven this purposeful work? So the why,I remember the first time I was asked that I was on TV and I don't do well with interviews and I was a little concerned. and they had given me the questions beforehand, why was not in the question.
Chet Cooper: And then sure enough, the first question was why? And I'm like, Oh gosh. and normally I do a joke with some of my openings, whatever that joke might be. It just comes out.
Chet Cooper: but the why is, is not that, oh, oh, so typically they would say, do you have a disability or you're a family member? And I always think about if I was, let's say, dealing with climate change, cause my undergrad's in biology, if I was doing something that was helping the environment, Would they ask me why?
Chet Cooper: But when it comes to disability, I was always asked why. Because it seemed to be something really, like, novel to [00:19:00] people. I guess if I rolled up in a chair, they wouldn't ask me the why. But because I didn't look like I had a disability, then they couldn't figure out why, so the question was there constantly.
Chet Cooper: I know your why is not that, I know that. Um, there's this, there's more, you know, sincere, but, there's was of confusion. Why would you do this? anyway, so the why came about, it was an article in Newsweek magazine and, it was, it was giving all this praise about the ADA coming out and, listed all these CEOs that were part of the CEO Council.
Chet Cooper: It ranges from Apple to Xerox and all these CEOs. And at the end of this article it said, If you know any way we could help them hire, get more people with disabilities, double the workforce for people with disabilities by the year 2000. Wait, 2000. So, it's 1990.
Chet Cooper: And it gave a phone number. Now, I'm not the kind of person necessarily to read [00:20:00] Newsweek, let alone pick up the phone. For some reason I did. I'd pick up the phone, call this place, and I'd tell them ideas of how to change the number of people with disabilities. The number of people with disabilities getting access to employment?
Chet Cooper: Doubling the number of people with disabilities in the workforce, yes. In the workforce, okay. And so, I gave them the ideas. I gave them ideas about ABILITYJobs. I said, change attitudes. I gave them the idea of ABILITY Magazine. I talked, I talked about everything I'm doing or have done now. And they are like really excited.
Chet Cooper: Then they said, how far are you along in the process? I said, I'm, I'm giving you the, no, well, if you could put something together, we'll invite you to the first World Congress on disability. And I'm thinking, well, okay, well, I, I really, as I was thinking of these things, I was thinking this should happen. So I created a prototype of these things.
Chet Cooper: Go to DC. And from there, it just kept expanding to where people kept coming up to me and saying, tell me [00:21:00] about what you're doing here. And before I knew it, I was talking to people from the Department of Justice, from EEOC. I got a meeting into the White House. It was, I did not plan this. but that organization, never wanted to do anything.
Chet Cooper: They just wanted to talk about people doing things, which I didn't quite realize that they were just an amplifier of sorts. So they weren't really active in a real meaningful change in that sense. And so, I have been an entrepreneur all my life And I have ADHD and dyslexia.
Chet Cooper: So the ADHD has caused me to have so many different small startups and businesses and multitasking. So that's just my brain working like that. I would have never thought that disability was going to be that place that I would like nest in. it gives me everything that my ADHD brain needs. And that [00:22:00] is, as you rattled off a bunch of things that have been created, it allows me to expand.
Chet Cooper: You know, squirrel run over there, squirrel run over there, and do all of these things and still stay focused on one particular subject matter, if you will, it's, so I've been very lucky, which is weird to say lucky about this, and since I've acquired I think three different disabilities because of age now.
Chet Cooper: So, it was the other thing I was always telling people when they asked me, I said, you know, disability affects us all at some point because of age. and so the majority of people have one or more disabilities before they die. And, and it affects their loved ones of, you know, community. It, it's, until it happens to people, they don't get it.
Chet Cooper: And then when they Also, people have disabilities and don't consider it a disability. They don't consider cancer a disability, or even dyslexia sometimes a disability. It's strange how the word disability is [00:23:00] viewed in such a strange way to different individuals that they don't recognize they themselves have a disability already.
Chet Cooper: Well, that sounds like you had a lot of knowledge about the future for all of us, right? That you said, we'll all have at least one disability before we die. and that's, that seems like a big why. And the reason that why is so important to me, like you said, I ask it out of, sincerity.
Chet Cooper: but I, I truly believe that if we don't know what our why is, then it's that much harder to find the how in the work that we are doing, in the advocacy work that we're doing. At least that's been my experience with myself and with educators and so you've found the how. And that leads to my next question.
Chet Cooper: So you've been doing this for such a long time. You're like a walking encyclopedia of the [00:24:00] disability rights movement and policies in the U. S. especially, but even worldwide.
Chet Cooper: disability history is one of my passions, which is one of the reasons why I wrote my Ed Roberts, champion of disability rights book, because I believe every child needs to study disability history in schools. You have been a prominent figure in the fight. Through your work, ensuring access for all people, whether it be in housing or employment or in representation in the entertainment industry, and so on.
Chet Cooper: I remember you telling me, how you had to advocate just to get ABILITY Magazine on the newsstands. that was in 1990 ish, right? So, quick story on that. so we're in this catch 22 of to get it national, you have to have a national distributor. To have a national distributor, have to have national [00:25:00] accounts, so you can't get a national account without a distributor, you can't get a distributor without national accounts.
Chet Cooper: So how do you break through that catch 22? So I just attacked both of them at the same time. And one story was. this, major food store chain. well, it was Safeway. so I get a hold of the person that is handling the, to allow new magazines into their magazine, stands that are inside the stores.
Chet Cooper: And the first thing he says, when I explained the magazine, he says, well, do you think a magazine dealing with disabilities belongs in a food store? So I thought, Oh, well, let me send you a copy of the magazine. So you could take a look and, you know, I said, okay. And bottom line, he always was at least nice enough to continue the dialogue, even though his attitude was in the beginning was bizarre.
Chet Cooper: So for me, bizarre for me. So I sent him and that time we had Cher on the cover. Cher has dyslexia. Cher, because I'm assuming he was thinking there [00:26:00] were images of people that were just not, making people feel comfortable. I guess is, you know, so here's this, you know, share in the cover and, and, the magazine was, just another magazine, but happens to have disability as a, component or fabric within the articles.
Chet Cooper: So. I send it to him, he looks at it, we talk again, he goes, yeah, that's, a really nice magazine, well done, but I, you know, I don't know if we can bring a magazine. He repeats it. Magazine, disability in the food store. Next week I get a press release from Safeway saying that they've given, I think, a million dollars to United Cerebral Palsy.
Chet Cooper: And the reason they've done that is because cerebral palsy is doing this good work and they're our neighbors and good clients or customers or something like that. I send him that press release, get ahold of him. He goes, Chet, I would love the magazine to be in the newsstand.[00:27:00]
Chet Cooper: So, then I pitched the distributors. But anyway, the idea there is yes, the attitude, the fight, multiple fights that we had trying to get something dealing with disabilities onto this newsstands across the country. That in and of itself could be a book. it was more than frustrating and took a lot longer than it should have.
Chet Cooper: And I know you faced situations similar to that in all aspects of your work. You have experienced resistance. You've had to educate people, convince people, and you've had to advocate. I know that many of my listeners are in that place as well. Of course, in a different context where they are advocating for disability inclusive practices
Chet Cooper: within their communities or within their child's school or, for educators, at their own schools and in their school districts. how have you generally [00:28:00] successfully broken through ableist practices and policies?
Chet Cooper: And what would you suggest that people focus on in order to also be successful? How, what advice would you give to our listeners? Well, it's, it's what I do. You know, I walk into a meeting with a bat. Um, no, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's a constant fight. It's a struggle. It's trying to find out why the no's, why the rejection, what can you do that could maybe chip away at that in some way.
Chet Cooper: and then try to find if possible, any champions within that struggle you're having that might have a family member with a disability that can champion on your side to do something beyond, you know, the gatekeepers that are blocking whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. You mean, you mean big hitters, like ...no, not necessarily big hitters, [00:29:00] just people that might, I'm not saying, yeah, if you could find a big hitter, but you could just find sometimes champions that are equal standing a little bit different, or maybe even outside the realm, but that people value that person or, in what they do.
Chet Cooper: So yeah, sometimes it's hard to get to a big hitter because they have, gatekeepers as well. the more you could find champions and build a coalition depending on how big your ask is and what you're trying to solve, in a sense of reasonable accommodation or whatever you're looking to do, it's trying to build a team, no matter what size, whether it's just another person or not, I think helps a lot in your fight for equality and civil rights or whatever the case might be.
Chet Cooper: Yeah. Thanks, Chet. Chet, what are you most proud of? what am I most proud of? Oh, I, I, that's a tough one because I, I always feel like there's so much more work to be done.
Chet Cooper: [00:30:00] So I, I, Yeah, and the other thing I was thinking just now about my tombstone, it would probably say something like, he had tenacity, you know, and everybody needs some of that to break through the, untold number of blocks, you know, the, walls that exist all over the place. It's just without tenacity, most people quit.
Chet Cooper: It's, and that's not, that's why we're not further along. and, because you know, it's, it's a struggle, it's hard. And, Yeah, I think again, I'm lucky that I had the tenacity, I can figure things out typically that others might not in the sense of, I remember looking at writing a book called how to start a business without a shoestring.
Chet Cooper: I
Chet Cooper: have no idea what that means. So you've heard of starting something with, with just a shoestring, right? You've heard that term before? I've heard shoestring budget. Is [00:31:00] that what it is? It's the same concept. Yeah. So I'm saying to do it without a shoestring. Okay. It's a shoestring. Okay. Yeah, so there are ways to do that.
Chet Cooper: and sometimes even in struggles, your audience, might be struggling for something. and maybe it's a budget issue. Then you go out and you try to figure out, okay, we want this, this and this, or need one thing or something. And look at what that is. And yes, of course, there's a GoFundMe and all that, but there's also possibilities of, what you can provide as a barter, as a trade for something, it's amazing what, cause that's where we all came from.
Chet Cooper: We all did the bartering, you know. I'll give you a goat for, you know, that, two chickens or whatever, before currency came along, we bartered. so there is that kind of, not everyone can understand how barter truly works, because they forget what the value is of what they have. But, it is a process that if you have no funds, that you might be able to pull off [00:32:00] some service you can provide, or something you can do.
Chet Cooper: or trade. Yeah, I could see that working in community, engagement opportunities. I think it would be a little trickier when you're dealing with the policies of school districts. however, maybe at the top, the leaders, could have some bartering, opportunities. something you wish you or others had known when you were a child.
Chet Cooper: that would have changed the way that disability is perceived today?
Chet Cooper: well, disability is such a broad, it means so much. It's so, it ranges. if more people. While they were young, interacted with other children that had multiple variety of disabilities and those children were [00:33:00] also integrated in such a way that they were just kids that might need some accommodation once in a while but that they became aligned friends, that would change society.
Chet Cooper: And I know that, you know, that's supposed to be the law of the land integration, but, a lot of it is still not done. And even if it's there, it's not done in the right way. so inclusion. Yeah. Yeah. Inclusionary practices.. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Are you ready for some rapid fire questions? six, seven, 32. Not math. Not, math. Cause you'd win.
Chet Cooper: No, you can win. You'll win this too. All right. Ready? Coffee or tea? Coffee or tea? Coffee. Land or sea. Did you say land or sea? Yeah. You, you're, this is so bad because I do both, you know, I'm mixed [00:34:00] handed by the way, like pickleball, you know, I could play left handed and right handed. So, so sea, I think of surfing, land
Chet Cooper: I think of motocross. I don't know how to do these. Go ahead. Well, that's good. you're ambidextrous, terrestrially. Okay. A Amba Terrestrial as, I dunno, I don't know. Okay. Paper or audio books? Scissors.
Chet Cooper: Audio audiobook, of course. Audio. Dyslexia. Favorite food?
Chet Cooper: Favorite food? Not, not, sorry. Sorry, not sorry. I'll say pasta. Pasta. Favorite book. I'm not well read, favorite book, ABILITY Magazine. ABILITY Magazine, okay, I'll take it. Favorite place you've traveled. Switzerland. [00:35:00] Nice. Favorite childhood memory? sitting, on my father's lap in France. Driving, a Porsche. Nice. It wasn't my Porsche. Thank you for clarifying. Favorite teacher? I do not remember her name. I just thought of her the other day. it was a high school teacher.
Chet Cooper: One is, Mr. Oliphant who had a chess, he created a chess club for us. And every time you win, you would get a silver dollar and I made so much money. the other one is a chemistry teacher in high school. And she said, I reminded her of Dick Cavett. And, more recently I interviewed Kevin Nealon and he, out of the blue, he just said, you know, you remind me of Dick Cavett.[00:36:00]
Chet Cooper: Really? Yeah, so, I hope to interview Dick Cavett before he passes away because he's still alive. He's 88, I think. That's great. Okay, favorite podcast host. there's a woman in San Diego. I'm pointing to myself for those who can't see, pick me, pick me. Thanks, Chet. And if people want to check out your work, where can they find you?
Chet Cooper: on the corner of 5th and main. if anybody ever wanted to reach out, they just could go to, you know, somewhere like any of those website's ABILITYMagazine.com and just go to contact and, and just say, there's this funny, funny guy on Diana's podcast. I'd like to talk to him. , So before we leave, tell me, you were talking a little bit about Judy Heumann and your last.[00:37:00]
Chet Cooper: interview with her. I didn't watch it. I saw that it was there. I didn't watch the whole thing since I knew Judy so well, I thought, you know, You introduced me to Judy Heumann. But tell me about your interaction with her. Oh my gosh. The podcast interview was much better than this one.
Chet Cooper: I'm kidding. It was so beautiful. we had been texting back and forth for almost a year trying to find a time that worked for her because she was so busy for those who, don't remember, Judy Heumann, is she's well known for her disability rights work, known as the mother of the disability rights movement.
Chet Cooper: And, she's featured on, The Netflix film, Crip Camp, and she has a book, Being Heumann, and then she has another book for youth. I can't recall the very long name [00:38:00] at the moment, but I did interview her and we finally did come up with a date. it was the day after her birthday, because I texted her to
Chet Cooper: wish her a happy birthday and she said, Oh, Diana, do you have time tomorrow? I was beyond ecstatic and interviewed her the next day and had a lovely conversation with her and, um, the next month she passed away. I was really fortunate that I got to share that moment, that I had the luxury of having her share that moment with me.
Chet Cooper: And just, she talked about all kinds of things. it was a fun and engaging conversation about her life and experiences and our, rapid fire questions were really fun too. Oh, so you did the same, you do this with all your guests? I do. Yeah, so I [00:39:00] do the rapid fire with all of my guests and, she was, it was fun. When I asked her for her favorite childhood memory, she talked about her father patting her on the head in synagogue and how that made her feel. It's really sweet, really sweet. And you, and the why, did you ask her why?
Chet Cooper: I believe I did. Yeah. she talked specifically to educators and families of children with disabilities too, which was great. before we end this, and it was wonderful, speaking with you today, Diana, but we'd all like to know, Diana, why? My why? Your why? My why is because, I have the honor of loving a man named Joaquin, who's my brother, who was [00:40:00] excluded.
Chet Cooper: He went six years without having the right to an education until 1975, when the individuals with disabilities education act was passed. And then he got to go to school, but he went to a segregated school. And we weren't even allowed to play on the playground together. And when I realized that, that after being so excited that he was finally going to go to school, and I realized I couldn't even play with him and introduce him to my friends and engage with him in school, I knew something was wrong and I think that that stuck with me and over the years, subsequently he was transferred to a non public school because he didn't fit the mold of what a student
Chet Cooper: would be in schools in public schools. So he was transferred to a non public school. And from there he was institutionalized at age 17 for a total of [00:41:00] 15 years institutionalized twice in his lifetime. and I realized that something had to change and it wasn't Joaquin. It wasn't my brother who had to change.
Chet Cooper: It was us. It was our policies. It was our attitudes. It was our mindset. And I know what's possible because now Joaquin lives as my next door neighbor. He lives in the community after a three year- court battle. He's living in the community. so I know it's possible and I know what it takes to make it happen.
Chet Cooper: And so that's why. That's why the podcast, that's why the writing, that's why I do what I do. Thanks for asking. So, I, quite aware of all of that and the struggles and the tenacity that you have to make all that happen for him, but what do you say to, a person who doesn't have that experience that Joaquin in their lives, [00:42:00] how do you get all the knowledge you've learned and the frustrations and the battles?
Chet Cooper: How can you go, even the audience right now, how do you get anybody to really listen and change their attitudes when they don't have Joaquin in their life the way you had? Yeah, that's real. That's the million dollar question. Whenever I speak, I always invite people to borrow our why, you know, and we talk, Joaquin and I, Joaquin's favorite metaphor is steak.
Chet Cooper: Steak means life quality to him. and he always said steak is coming. Steak is coming and still does. And so I ask, you know, I asked people to think about what's their why, when people in the audience and I look at them and I say, what's your, why Joaquin's my, why, what's your, why? Because if you don't [00:43:00] know your, why, then you're not going to be committed to making it happen.
Chet Cooper: You're not going to know how to make it happen. And if you don't have a, why, and Joaquin's story has touched you or somebody else's story has touched you. Please let that be your why. That's adopt. Adopt the why, I think. Yeah.
Chet Cooper: That's so good. It's really important. It, I think it's critical. things are not gonna change if people don't understand why it's so important to change. and people are not going to be determined and have the tenacity to figure out how to make those changes if they aren't completely grounded in why it matters.
Chet Cooper: Hence disability awareness that matters the name of the podcast. Well, this is great. thank you for being my guest today. Our sponsors are, well, thank you, Chet, [00:44:00] because you so generously offered to sponsor the podcast and thank you for being a sponsor and thank you for letting me
Chet Cooper: interview you today and for, reciprocating with a very important question for me. Yeah. It's always a pleasure speaking with you, Diana. You know that. Um, but, uh, we just, we can figure out how to clone more people like you and, and you. Yeah. Thank you, Chet. They'd have to be better pickleball players.
Chet Cooper: That's a problem. Much better pickleball players. All right, Chet. Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Beyond Awareness, disability Awareness That Matters. I love providing this podcast to [00:45:00] support you in your passionate disability awareness and inclusionary practices work in our schools and communities. And I hope you'll help me to help others by promoting this episode far and wide.
Chet Cooper: You can also proactively support this podcast in the following ways, subscribe, rate and review this show on Apple podcast, Google podcast. Spotify, or wherever you listen to this episode, it really means the world to me to have your support in this way, because it increases the chances of others getting to hear the messages presented in each episode.
Chet Cooper: For more valuable resources that align with the values of this podcast, you can visit my website, dianapastoracarson. com, where you'll find links to my priceless free resource, how to talk about disability with kids. As well as my blog, where I share my thoughts as an educator and sibling advocate, [00:46:00] my flexible online Beyond Awareness Basics course, my books, including the beautifully illustrated children's book, Ed Roberts Champion of disability Rights, as well as my comprehensive guide for anyone wanting to do disability awareness work.
Chet Cooper: That is the book entitled Beyond Awareness, Bringing disability into Diversity Work in K 12 Schools and Communities. Now while I love this book so much, and I believe you should have it in your library as a resource, I do understand that time is of the essence. So, if you are super busy like me and you just need something quick, easy, and convenient that will get to the point, I have just what you need.
Chet Cooper: You should definitely get your hands on my handy, tri fold, laminated, beyond disability awareness educator's guide. Published by [00:47:00] NPR Inc. Again, all of these resources can be found at dianapastoracarson. com. You can also follow me, Diana on Instagram at dianapastoracarson and at facebook. com slash go beyond awareness.
Chet Cooper: Podcast transcription and podcast guest information can be found in the show notes. Intro and outro music has been provided courtesy of my son, Emmanuel Castro. Thank you again. Be well, be a lifelong learner, and let's be inclusive. See you next time.
Chet Cooper: Latin Theme Music: Cuando empieza [00:48:00] el ritmo Todo el mundo se junta Bailamos, gritamos, amamos
Chet Cooper: Subamos las manos Nada nos puede parar Hasta el final vamos a cantar Estamos aquĆ para disfrutar MoviĆ©ndonos al ritmo Manos arriba, arriba, todas las manos para arriba. Que viva la vida, no hay alternativa. Arriba, arriba, todas las manos para arriba. Que viva la vida, que viva, que viva, que viva. Whoa,
Chet Cooper: whoa, whoa, [00:49:00] whoa, whoa, whoa. Todo el mundo together, bailaremos forever, sudando, gozando, brillando hasta la maƱana. Whoa, whoa. Nada nos puede parar. Hasta el final vamos a cantar. Estamos aqui para disfrutar. MoviƩndonos de ritmo. Manos arriba, arriba. Todas las manos pa arriba. Que viva la vida. No hay alternativa.
Chet Cooper: Arriba, arriba. Todas las manos pa arriba. Que viva la vida. Que viva, que viva, que [00:50:00] viva.
