Diana Pastora Carson:
Welcome to the Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters podcast. Here, you will find a safe space to learn and grow with leaders in education, Disability Studies, disability advocacy, and diversity, equity and inclusion conversations. Specifically, we look at how disability fits into diversity, equity and inclusion, and how to frame disability awareness. In the context of educating K through 12 communities, this podcast serves educators, parents, and community members who strive to learn and or teach about disability in a research-based and respectful way. Moving beyond simple awareness and diving into inclusive and socially responsive conversations. Thank you for joining us today. Now let's go Beyond Awareness.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Hello, and welcome back to Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters. I'm so excited to have our guest, Clare Killy, with us today. Clare, I would love for you to start by telling us about yourself and your career journey.
Clare Killy :
Great. Thank you, Diana. I'm so excited to be here with you and so glad that we've connected from afar on each side of the country and that it's brought us here today.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Me too. Me too. Thank you so much.
Clare Killy :
So yeah, I, I started my career as a teacher. You know, looking back, I knew that I wanted to be a teacher from the time I was really young. I come from a family of teachers. My mom was an elementary special education teacher for many years. So it always seemed very clear and familiar to me that sort of education path. So after college, I moved to Chicago, I started my career as Head Start preschool teacher. And so for those of you not familiar, federal law says that Head Start programs must reserve at least 10% of their enrollment for children with disabilities. So I had several children with different types of disabilities and here I was a first year teacher with a degree in early childhood education, no special education training. And side note, this is not uncommon as you know, Diana, that most general ed programs provide very minimal, if any, information about working with children with disabilities.
Clare Killy :
So that's when I quickly learned like most teachers do when they get in the field that theory and practice don't always align. So luckily, you know, I had spent my entire life growing up, as I said, with a special educator, as a parent, who made disability a part of the conversation in our household, whose classroom I spent a lot of time in. I had family members with disabilities, so I didn't have that fear around disability. And I think that that was a huge factor for me in navigating that experience. And I just learned I learned in real time. I really tried to focus on flexibility, collaborating with, you know, the great colleagues I had around me. And to this day, I can honestly say being a teacher is, and will be always, the hardest job that I've ever had. And, you know, after that first year of what they call survival, as you know, I taught for a few more years, and then I just started to become really interested in understanding behavior.
Clare Killy :
And I was thinking a lot about family systems and I started to realize that I was feeling really confined professionally in a classroom setting. I was really looking for some sort of a greater connection to the larger community, but I didn't really know what that was . So I decided to leave the field, go to graduate school full-time and try to figure out, you know, what I was looking for, what I was missing. So I went to get a master's degree in child development from the Erickson Institute, and that was a really transformative experience for me. And during that time, I had the opportunity to gain field experience at a clinic for children with behavior disorders. And I worked as a liaison of sorts between families and teachers. And that was where it sort of clicked for me. And I realized it wasn't that I was trying to find a connection beyond the classroom, but that I, in fact, wanted to be that connection between the classroom and the community.
Clare Killy :
So after getting that degree, I found my way to the nonprofit Aspire, where I work now and which is focused on disability inclusion. And I initially came on board here as an education specialist. So in that role, I worked with teachers, students, families, providing consultation to really help create inclusive learning environments where, you know, children with disabilities were set up for success. So fast forward nine years that I've been at Aspire, I'm now the vice president of digital experiences here at Aspire, where I oversee a variety of consultation-centered services, and our podcast, which is again, how you and I became connected. And it's really interesting, you know, when I look back at my journey career-wise, it's just interesting to note how I've sort of always found my way back to inclusion and back to the disability community, even when that path sort of started to go different ways.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yes. I love listening to your podcast, Amplify Inclusion, and that that's how that is how we met. And I kept waiting for the next episode to come up so that I could listen and learn from you and your guests. And I really appreciate all of the experiences that you have behind you that really inform the questions that you ask in your podcast and the types of guests that you bring in in order to have that connection be present between classrooms, communities, individuals who experience disability, and who experience ableism. I appreciate that you continuously focus on what really matters, what really makes a difference in people's lives and communities. So thank you. Thank you for being here. Again, I'm so excited to have you.
Diana Pastora Carson:
So can you elaborate a little bit more about the, the work of Aspire Chicago? I know that your program is working with businesses and organizations to shift mindsets about disability. When you say shift mindsets about disability, which I saw in something that you had written, what do you mean by that? What are we doing when we're saying shifting mindsets? Why is that even necessary?
Clare Killy :
Well, so first off, Aspire is a well established nonprofit based in Chicagoland. We offer a variety of different programs. So some of those are resource for individuals with disabilities, focusing on things like independent living, employment, we have social enterprises, as you said. We're really also committed to engaging with communities. And so one of the main focuses of my team is educating the community. So providing that training and consulting for businesses, organizations, schools, you know, hosting informational events, the podcast, all of these things are with the intention of starting dialogue, and as you said, shifting mindsets about disability. So what do we mean when we say shifting mindsets? We believe that mindset is a critical foundation to sustainability when it comes to disability inclusion. The other piece of that is that we believe each and every one of us has a role to play and a responsibility in creating inclusive environments.
Clare Killy :
So how we think about disability and inclusion sets the stage for how we contribute to creating those inclusive environments, right? So, you know, what we learned really early on in our work is that we can provide strategies for thinking about, you know, adapting environments and diverse communication styles and these things that are really important. But if we jump to application before we first help people really understand the complexity of disability, of inclusion, of access, then practical application doesn't stick. It's not sustainable and it's not prioritized, frankly. You know, so we want people to understand that one, that disability is not a bad word, that it's a part of diversity. And we want people to take ownership over the fact that each of us have the power to unlearn the way that's society has historically framed disability. So, you know, when we can shift those mindsets, it sets the stage for us to act mindfully. You know, when we're thinking about workplaces, classrooms, other, you know, environments in the community, when we say shift mindsets, we're really talking about reframing our understanding of disability as step one as a foundation.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Oh, wow. Yes. And that speaks to me both as an educator and as a family member. And I think about the listeners who are, you know, a family member that just found out within the last few years that their child has a disability and they're left with this mindset of disappointment in some cases or fear in some cases, because that's historically how our culture and our society has responded to the idea of disability and not seeing it as a natural and normal part of the human experience and part of diversity and that we can celebrate, but that what disables people is actually not a person's body or mind, but the societal limitations, the barriers, the lack of access, as you mentioned, so important to frame it in that way. And there's so much more possible that is sustainable like you said, I like that. I like that, you know, rationale, we have to create a mindset that's sustainable, that creates possibilities for people.
Clare Killy :
Yeah. If you don't mind me elaborating a little bit, I think sort of a good example to put it into context also is thinking about employment, you know, under employment specifically of people with disabilities. So, you know, according to the most recent data I've seen from the Bureau of Labor statistics, the employment rate for people with disabilities is as of 2021, at least was right around19%. And obviously there's other factors right now in our society, but it's a persistent problem. And is that because people with disabilities aren't capable of working? Absolutely not. Right. It's because society has historically decided that people with disabilities should be boxed into certain types of jobs. And society has determined that there's a cap on the career potential of a person with a disability. So it's just an example of how that mindset piece really has a chain reaction.
Clare Killy :
You know, it results in the development of environments that aren't universally designed and it's sending the message that not all of us have the right to sustainable purpose and financial independence. You know, so one of the things our inclusive employment team is doing is not only working with individuals with disabilities that are eager to find a fulfilling career, but they're also working with employers that wanna make that commitment to hiring. And it needs to be an intentional process because it's not just about making the jobs available. It's about creating workplaces, that foster long-term job success, and really creating that culture of belonging.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Right. Right. This is why this is so important because of the inequities that exist. Yeah. Thank you. So I know that recently, you have come out, quote-unquote, "come out" as a person with a disability. Can you share with our listeners what that process has been like for you as somebody who's so involved in this field? You know, and how has your professional experience informed and intersected with your personal journey?
Clare Killy :
Yeah. So first off, let me say, I'm not new to my experience with disability, but I am very new to talking about it and I'd be lying if I said, this is an easy topic for me. So I wanna thank you for, you know, creating a safe space for me to talk about my experience. And it's also worth mentioning that this is a never-ending journey. I'll understand, you know, my disability identity very differently tomorrow than perhaps the way I'm understanding it today. You know, so I'm gonna try to keep this as concise as possible. And I just wanna share, you know, a few milestones that have really shaped my path. So I identify as a person with invisible disabilities. So this is an experience that it's influenced much of my life. And although, as I mentioned earlier, there was always open conversation about disability in my household.
Clare Killy :
I've always had people with disabilities in my life. I never personally saw myself as a person with a disability. And the first sort of pivotal moment for me. And I've heard you talk about this, Diana as well, really just aligned with my growing knowledge, you know, throughout my career, throughout my life, which is also never-ending. And as my understanding of disability really expanded, I started to realize that not only is disability often left out of the larger diversity conversation, but there are also so subcategories of disability that are sort of left out of that conversation about diversity within disability itself. If that makes sense. And those are non-apparent disabilities, like mental health disabilities, chronic illness, the list goes on. So that's one piece, you know, my definition of disability became more refined. And at the same time, I was becoming very connected with networks and circles within the disability community and learning from mentors and activists and people who have a lot of disability pride.
Clare Killy :
And that was really empowering for me. And so those two things sort of happening at the same time, that's what really allowed me to internally recognize that I'm a part of the disability community. And, you know, then I sort of hit a wall because I came into a realization and that it was hard for me to say it out loud, you know, and to be open about it. And I was really stuck trying to figure out why that was so difficult. And that's when a few other pieces to the puzzle sort of came into view. And the first of which was my recognition that my perspective was a result of internalized ableism, something that I teach others about. And was experiencing myself, you know, that unconscious, sometimes conscious idea that I needed to hide my experience to appear more capable. You know, then there's that added factor that there's a lot of stigma that exists around mental health disabilities, which is how, that's sort of the category under which I identify.
Clare Killy :
And I realized that for a lot of my life, I've been putting myself in some really difficult situations and not asking for what I needed, just to keep up that appearance of having it all together. And in the long run, that was really detrimental to me. And so as I continued sort of unpacking this difficulty with self-identification, the other aspect that's been really difficult for me, Diana. And it's something that I still struggle with is the fact that I recognize that I carry a lot of privilege. I'm a white person, I'm cisgender. I have an advanced degree. I have access to healthcare, you know, and I had the mindset that because of all this privilege that I carry, I felt that I hadn't struggled enough to identify with a marginalized group. And I felt that by being open about my disability identity, that I would essentially be taking attention away from someone that was more deserving, you know, that had struggled more, that perhaps had a multi-marginalized identities.
Clare Killy :
And I had some really incredible mentors who really pushed me to think about the fact that privilege and oppression can coexist, you know, that there's no value in comparing whose hardship is greater because no two experiences are alike. And you know, more recently, and I would say it's one of the most pivotal moments for me., and you probably remember this episode, Diana. Last summer, I had the opportunity to interview Andres Gallgos, chair of the National Council on Disability, for our podcast. And during that conversation, Andres said, and I'll sort of paraphrase, he said, the more people who identify with a disability, the better, because it makes it easier for disability to be accepted as a natural part of, you know, of human life and of diversity.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Right.
Clare Killy :
And in that moment, I just had a wow, the result of what I was doing with really good intentions, which was hiding myself and my experience really to preserve room for others was having the opposite effect because my silence was actually diminishing the collective volume of the community, you know, of an incredibly diverse disability community.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Instead of amplifying you were stifling.
Clare Killy :
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yes. So I realized, yes, this is gonna be good for me, but this is so much bigger than me. You know, it was shortly after that, that I made a really difficult and thoughtful decision to, you know, move through that fear, be open about having a disability in my professional space. And I decided the best way for me to do that was with a professional support system. So I applied for a fellowship with Disability Lead, which is a Chicago nonprofit that holds a network of professionals with all different types of disabilities who want to create change and lead with their disability identity at the forefront. So that's where I am with my journey. I'm a new fellow of Disability Lead, and I'm just taking incremental steps in terms of how I share my story and how I keep my experience centered in my work as a leader, you know, in the community and in the field.
Diana Pastora Carson:
That was so beautifully shared. Thank you so much. And I hope that, and I have a feeling that, that is going to be of great support to somebody who's listening and give them the courage...
Clare Killy :
I hope so too.
Diana Pastora Carson:
to also step out and acknowledge who they are...
Clare Killy :
Thank you.
Diana Pastora Carson:
and what their needs are. Yes, you're welcome. So as we end, what message would you especially like to leave educators and parents with?
Clare Killy :
There's so many, I, this is a great question. And as I was thinking about it, what kept coming to mind was lead with curiosity. You know, there's so much power in asking critical questions and modeling that practice of being curious, learning with your students. And I think that's the type of vulnerability that's really required to move past fear and misconceptions about disability, about diversity in general, you know, in conversations with children. And the best teacher that I ever had told me, never stop asking hard questions, even when no one else is doing it. And that changed my life and the way that I approach my professional work as well in a lot of ways.
Diana Pastora Carson:
I love that. Lead with curiosity. How about for students with disabilities?
Clare Killy :
You know, what comes to mind first is your story matters. It matters a lot more than you realize, you know. And however your voice looks or sounds or takes shape, use it. Use it to tell your story. Don't hide who you are. Be proud of who you are and what you have to say to the world.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Claire, thank you. Where can people find you?
Clare Killy :
So you can find me through Aspire at AspireChicago.com and learn more about our organization. You can check out our podcast, as you mentioned, Amplify Inclusion, which is on Podbean, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. And you can find me on LinkedIn and connect there. And feel free to reach out that way.
Diana Pastora Carson:
It's been lovely having you, Clare. Thank you so much for sharing from the heart and for offering your pearls of wisdom and your authentic self with us today.
Clare Killy :
Thank you. I really admire you, Diana, and your effort to always do that as well. Just being completely authentic. And I'm so glad to be here. It's an honored to be with you and to know you so I can't wait to keep teaming up. Thank you.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Likewise.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters. If this was helpful to you, be sure to subscribe, rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. You can also follow me, Diana, on Instagram @dianapastoracarson and on Facebook at www.Facebook.com/GoBeyondAwareness. Or you can go to my website for more information at www.DianaPastoraCarson.com. My books include Beyond Awareness: Bringing Disability into Diversity Work in K-12 Schools and Communities, as well as my children's book, Ed Roberts: Champion of Disability Rights. They can both be found on Amazon. For your free Beyond Awareness resource called the "5 Keys to Going Beyond Awareness," simply go to www.GoBeyondAwareness.com/keys. This podcast transcription and podcast guest information can be found in the show notes. Intro and outro music has been provided courtesy of Emmanuel Castro. Thank you again for joining me. Be well, be a lifelong learner, and let's be inclusive. See you next time.
