Diana Pastora Carson:
Welcome to the Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters podcast. Here, you will find a safe space to learn and grow with leaders in education, Disability Studies, disability advocacy, and diversity, equity and inclusion conversations. Specifically, we look at how disability fits into diversity, equity and inclusion, and how to frame disability awareness. In the context of educating K through 12 communities, this podcast serves educators, parents, and community members who strive to learn and or teach about disability in a research-based and respectful way. Moving beyond simple awareness and diving into inclusive and socially responsive conversations. Thank you for joining us today. Now let's go Beyond Awareness.
Diana Pastora Carson:
I'm so thrilled to have Leroy Moore joining us here today on the Beyond Awareness podcast. I've known Leroy for many years. We became friends. As we served on the board of directors of Disability Rights California, and then there were many years in between. And now we serve on the board of directors of Disability Voices United together. Leroy is not only someone I consider a friend, but a mentor and has always been a supporter of all my years of growing and evolving in terms of my disability awareness work. Leroy is the author of Black Disabled Man with a Big Mouth and a High IQ; Black Cripple Delivers Poetry and Llyrics; Black Disabled Art History 101; Black Disabled Ancestors; Krip Hop Graphic Novel; and For You: Black Disabled Young Men. And excitedly, Leroy is also currently a doctoral student at UCLA. And there's so much more to know about Leroy. Leroy Moore, welcome to the Beyond Awareness podcast.
Leroy Moore:
Hey, thank you for having me and thank you for doing this. This is so great and I'm so lucky that you're doing this because it's way overdue.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Thank you so much, Leroy. That means a lot to me. So Leroy, can you please share your history, your passions, and why you believe in educating our children and youth about disability from a social justice context?
Leroy Moore:
Yeah, since day one, I've always been looking for myself and others, Black disabled people in history, in my neighborhood and in music. So one story that I always tell is a story that goes back, is that I was in my father's basement. This was in Connecticut and you know, my family had a basement. So I was in father's basement and he had record collection. This was before CDs and before MP3s and before computers, so he had a huge record collection. And I kept on looking at the record collection, and I saw all these disabled musicians. I was like, what is this? You know, it was like a mirror of me that I didn't get in school. I didn't get anywhere. So because of that and because of Porgy and Bess, the opera Porgy and Bess, (you know, Porgy had a disability), I shouted at my mother. I was like, "I'm on TV! I'm on TV!" and my mother came and looked. My mother was like, "No, that's Porgy." And I looked up to my mother, and I was like, "I'm Porgy? I'm Porgy?" Because that was the first time I saw a Black, disabled man on TV.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Wow. What a powerful moment that must have been.
Leroy Moore:
It was huge. It changed my whole my whole vision. As a matter of fact, I'm still on that track of researching Black, disabled people, you know? So you know, that started my hunger for finding out about Black, disabled people and activism. And from there I got involved with police brutality work, because my father was linked to the Black Panthers. I used to go to his meetings and you know, they used to talk about police brutality. This is back in the late 70's, so way before Black Lives Matter. And I realized that a lot of Black disabled people were getting shot then, and now it's 2022, and it's almost the same story. So, so yeah, so my history of, you know, continued researching around Black disability and, you know, I include it with poetry now, and Krip Hop Nation, and other things that I do. So, so yeah, it's really important for teachers, all teachers, not only special education teachers, but all teachers should know disability and Black disability history. And that's one thing that I'm trying to do with this PhD is trying to get UCLA t really pick up Black Disability Studies. So we're working on that as we speak.
Diana Pastora Carson:
That's awesome! That's directly because of you. I'm so, so happy that you're pushing for that, Leroy. That's wonderful. What do you think is going to be the result of having Black Disability Studies at UCLA and other places? What is your hope for the outcome of that?
Leroy Moore:
Well, the outcome, you know, before it gets into universities, because you know, Black Studies started in the community. So I really want Black Disability Studies awareness, activism to really take shape in the community, you know, because what I say is thatBlack disabled people are looking for a home. They have no home now. Because the Black community is so ableist. And because of that Black disabled people can't go home. So I'm hoping that my work with Krip Hop and Black Disability Studies will, you know, at least establish a little piece of home that people could build on. One of the goals of my PhD is to have a Krip Hop Institute in L.A. Where we would take over a building and you know it'd be a physical building, like Ed Roberts building in Berkeley. So yeah, so that's the goal.
Diana Pastora Carson:
That's wonderful. So Leroy, when you say, when you say that Black disabled people have no home, can you give a concrete example of what that looks like in your life or in the lives of other Black disabled people?
Leroy Moore:
Yeah, for example, I go back to my youth inthe late seventies, me and other Black, disabled friends of mine. We were all boys at the time. We wrote letters to Black organizations, this like '79-80, and we said, you know, where's Black disabled people? And we got form letters saying that there's nothing out there. And these form letters came from PhDs, you know, people that had, you know, PhDs and were scholars on race, and they had no clue around, you know, Black, disabled people. So that, you know, from there, you know, we have to build a sense of home in the Black community, correcting the wrongs of these Black civil rights leaders and Black organizations that have no clue around disability. That's the work of Black disabled people is that they have to do it, and it can't come from anybody else and it's a big question mark. You know, are they gonna do it? You know, because there's no bling-bling in that work. You know, I'm still on SSI. Although I'm doing this PhD program and it's weird. It's like, for the first time in my life, I'm getting an amount of money that's just coming to me, you know, you know, doing the study and I think also, the work that I've always done, now people are recognizing it, and I' getting paid as a consultant to do that work. So it's finally coming full circle.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yeah. It's finally coming full circle. Yeah.
Leroy Moore:
As the guy that's 54 years old.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yeah. I was gonna ask, I know we're very close in age, so I was gonna ask you how old you are. Yeah, yeah. That you have a living wage coming to you finally in your life is extraordinary and a sad commentary of the value that we place on people with disabilities as a society. So Leroy, I wanna bring it back to educators in elementary, middle and high school. And what is it that teachers can do, can discuss, how can they, how can they support social justice for all people, including Black, disabled people.
Leroy Moore:
Thank you, Diana, for saying that because God, I mean, in California, we all know that there's a law on the books that says, you know, disability should be part of the curriculum, but like anything else, laws don't mean nothing if it's not fully funded and fully implemented. So although we have these on the books, it's not fully funded and not fully implemented. So what I say to teachers is that use it. Use this law. Show it to your principals, show it to higher ups that this is a law in California. So we have to do it. You know it's not begging people to do it. It's not saying oh please do it. It's not hopping on the inclusionary campaign. It's law. So they have to do it. And that's how it should be seen. And it should be seen that disabled students are everywhere. So a teacher that has the wisdom and knowledge to teach disabled students can teach all students because our history is a part of the U.S.
Diana Pastora Carson:
So if let's say I'm a teacher who has no experience with Black, Brown, Indigenous, People of Color and Mixed-Race People. And I come in and I, I want to do right. I want to make sure that my students have a well rounded view of what social justice means. Where can I find the resources? How can I know that I am speaking to this competently? What should I do? What are some strategies I can use to make sure that what I am teaching is based in respect and competence and you know, that I'm doing it the right way?
Leroy Moore:
Yeah. Well, first you gotta recognize that you don't know everything, you know. So you have to reach out to people that do. And now that we social media, there's no excuse not to know it. That's one thing. Second is to follow the modes of like EmilyNusbaum that brought disability justice into her class by having me teach my book, Black Disabled Art History 10, at a university. Yeah. And, you know, and say no, you're gonna recognize Leroy as a scholar, you know, so that's, that's huge because that's changing the whole institutional structure of what is a scholar, you know? So we, we need more teachers like that, you know? And, and it is not because usually what happens is that they, that some teachers, you know, give like a gift card for somebody to come and teach. It's not that, you know. Forget about the gift card. It's about really leveling the playing field from academic scholar to, you know, community scholar, and then using your institutional privilege to really change institutions of higher learning. And, you know, it's shocking because going back to when I was doing a non-profit called Disability Advocates of Minorities Organization me and we try get into like Bay Area schools, but the teachers wanted it, but the principals and the school board was just totally against it. And its two Black disabled men trying to get into special education schools to teach Black, disabled boys. And we couldn't get in to them because of principals and stuff like that.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Was it that they didn't want to pay you? Or was it that they didn't want you sharing your experiences with...
Leroy Moore:
Yeah, they didn't see us as, they didn't see the topic of Black and disabled, you know, as something to teach. I was like, are you serious? Yeah. So, yeah. So yeah. And also I think we need,uyou need more Black men in education and in special education. You know, it's lacking so much, you know, so yeah.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yeah. Leroy, I know you've, even though we have lived on opposite ends of the state of California for so many years
Leroy Moore:
I'm getting closer.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yeah, you are getting closer. You're closer. You're in LA now. So you're closer to San Diego. But you were up in the Bay Area for the longest time and you would, any opportunity that you came to Southern California, we would get together. Or if I went to the Bay Area, we would get together and you would let me film you, you know, record you to share things with my elementary school students. And then a couple times you were down here and you came to my school and talked to my students in elementary school. And then you came to my San Diego State class at the end of the day. Can you share the story of, because you always talk about what a difference there was in the students receptiveness to you sharing from in elementary school versus at the university.
Leroy Moore:
Yeah. And I think, you know, the difference was, I think you set that difference, you know, because in the elementary school, you laid the foundation of you know, disability justice, and disability, and you know, before I was there, you taught about my work. So when I stepped on campus, everyone was like, "Leroy's here! Leroy's here!"
Diana Pastora Carson:
Leroy's here! Yes, you were celebrity. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And you know, they had learned already about ableism. They had already learned about access. They'd already learned about inclusion and disability history and about respect. Just general respect.
Leroy Moore:
Yeah, yeah,
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yeah, yeah. And then you went to my class at night at SDSU and...
Leroy Moore:
It was totally different! It is so funny because my presentation had everything, all the bells and whistles, we had had music, we had artists skyping from Africa, and after all that, not one question I was like, are you serious? I just left an elementary school that had more questions. I think I started with that. I don't, you don't be scared, just left elementary school with total questions. So don't be scared to ask a question. I started out like that and still not one question.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yeah, crickets, crickets. I think people don't know, you know, people don't have relationships with people with disabilities in general, oftentimes, and, and if they haven't had that experience or those relationships, they don't know what to expect. There's a fear that they might be saying the wrong thing, asking the wrong question. They really just don't know how to contextualize what should my question be because I really don't know a whole lot about a person, right?
Leroy Moore:
And usually, you know, usually when I talk about Krip Hop, usually that opens up, you know, the floodgates and people are more willing to share, but that time it was just crickets. Yeah.
Diana Pastora Carson:
So Leroy you shared that story about you going into your dad's record collection and seeing that a lot of the people that he collected music from were people who were disabled. And when you did discovered that, that just really lit you up. And you didn't mention that you are also a musician and that you have a great interest in supporting disabled musicians and artists. And so can you just share a little bit about that and then I would like for you to share where we can find your work, you know, where we can find your books, where we can find your albums and your work.
Leroy Moore:
Yes. Yes. Krip Hop started almost 15 years ago. This is the 15th year. And we started on KPFA 96.1 FM in Berkeley where I had a 3-part series on hip hop and disability. And from there it blew up on MySpace because Facebook wasn't around. So MySpace blew up and that's where I met Keith Jones, the co-founder, one of the co-founders, and the late Rob DA Noise Temple. And after that, it just, it just blew up. I mean, our first conference was Krip Hop and Homo Hop at UC Berkeley where we talked about disabled hip hop artists and queer hip hop artists. And that was at UC Berkeley.
Diana Pastora Carson:
What did you call it? Krip Hop and (Leroy: Homo Hop) and Homo Hop, okay. Thank you.
Leroy Moore:
And yeah, so we talked about how those two groups were isolated in hip hop, you know, in mainstream hip hop. So yeah. So after that, you know, Krip Hop has been putting out music articles... This last year Krip Hop went under Keith Jones' LLC. He has an LLC, so Krip Hop is under there and,
Diana Pastora Carson:
Didn't, didn't you win some kind of award?
Leroy Moore:
Some kind of award?
Diana Pastora Carson:
Kind of a big one?
Leroy Moore:
Yeah! A kind of a big one! Yeah. Krip Hop won an Emmy, as a matter of fact, for the movie, Rising Phoenix, about the Paralympics. And we did the music, well the theme song, between Keith Jones and Toni Hickman and George TraGiC Doman. And so yeah, you know, thanks for bringing it up, because it's kinda strange because, although we won an Emmy, we never got media for it. Like I just don't understand that. It's like we just won an Emmy! Yeah, it's kind of weird. But yeah.
Diana Pastora Carson:
So when we educate children in our schools the right way, then when Black disabled artists win an Emmy for a theme song, it's gonna get publicity. You know, when they become the adults, when they become the people in the community when they own the businesses and the record labels and the film industry and all kinds of industries in the United States and abroad things will change. But we have to start with the children. And I know, you know that, and I thank you so much for the years that you have committed to supporting the education of children and youth.
Leroy Moore:
Yeah. No, thank you. Your books and stuff like that. It just kicks butt. So yeah.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Thank you, Leroy.
New Speaker:
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters. If this was helpful to you, be sure to subscribe, rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. You can also follow me, Diana, on Instagram @dianapastoracarson and on Facebook at www.Facebook.com/GoBeyondAwareness. Or you can go to my website for more information at www.DianaPastoraCarson.com. My books include Beyond Awareness: Bringing Disability into Diversity Work in K-12 Schools and Communities, as well as my children's book, Ed Roberts: Champion of Disability Rights. They can both be found on Amazon. For your free Beyond Awareness resource called the "5 Keys to Going Beyond Awareness," simply go to www.GoBeyondAwareness.com/keys. This podcast transcription and podcast guest information can be found in the show notes. Intro and outro music has been provided courtesy of Emmanuel Castro. Thank you again for joining me. Be well, be a lifelong learner, and let's be inclusive. See you next time.
